
In Pic: Subroto Bagchi
An innovator in India’s IT industry with a wealth of experience, ranging from 10 years developing Wipro as a global force, to becoming the Vice-Chairman and Gardener at India’s leading software firm, MindTree - Subroto Bagchi’s three books are a testament of his vast knowledge in the professional sphere. The Bagchi collection has a brilliant knack of seeking inspiration and knowledge from unusual sources rather than the stale examples we constantly read about.
There is a personal touch in all his books that gives them an empathetic feel and at the same time never strays away from its priceless didactic influence. He describes himself as an ordinary man looking to achieve extraordinary things, and one can say this is the underlining theme of all his books. Essentially they are ‘tool kits’ for individuals striving to create extraordinary businesses and who strive to be extraordinary professionals. These are three books for people who inspire to not just be good, but rather to be the best in what they look to achieve - both professionally and personally.
In an exclusive interview with Flipkart - MindTree Vice Chairman and Gardener Subroto Bagchi talks about his three books…
Who is Subroto Bagchi and what makes him tick?
To begin with, I’m a person with an ordinary background and I’m very conscious of my beginnings. The Subroto Bagchi I know, is of ordinary birth and with help from other people like him, is trying to build something extraordinary. My whole life is a quest for that. What makes me tick? Being around with people makes me tick, the idea of building a sense of legacy makes me tick, the concept of making an impact which is larger than one’s self, which is disproportionate to one’s current capacity makes me tick.
Can you tell us what exactly your three books are about and how they differ from each other in style and topic?
On The High Performance Entrepreneur
My first book is ‘The High Performance Entrepreneur’. It was written at the behest of Penguin and it was written for would-be entrepreneurs. Penguin wanted the book to be written in an informal, conversational, narrative style, because they were quite taken by my columns in Business World at the time. They liked the style; where, in a very informal, personal way I used to raise various issues and talk about learning from unusual sources. They were wondering if I would agree to write a book as somebody who is a practitioner, somebody who is not done yet; because many times books get written about companies when they are already successful. The second category of entrepreneurship books you’ll find are written by people who are not entrepreneurs. They wanted an entrepreneur speaking in an informal narrative style, kind of giving the formula away.
On Go Kiss The World
The second book was ‘Go Kiss The World’. While I wrote ‘The High Performance Entrepreneur’, it occurred to me that everybody is not meant to be an entrepreneur. For every great enterprise, you need thousands of professionals, young people who make these organizations succeed. Now where are these people going to come from? Invariably, these people come from hinterland India. The real India is not the metro India. The real India is the India I come from. I was born and brought up in a remote part of Orissa, and I was raised in the tribal districts around Orissa. Even today when I go to hotels, hospitals, banks, any place, you find thousands of young people who had a less than privileged life, who have left everything behind them and come to the big city to work. I believe that sometimes when these people come from their modest background, they kind of stand outside the circle, sometimes they feel they’re missing something. They don’t feel adequate enough. I wanted them to know my personal story, so that they understand when you come from an ordinary background it is an asset - because it gives you simplicity and the power of simplicity is second to none.
The second thing it gives you is innocence. In today’s rapidly changing world, it’s a very important characteristic. If you’re innocent, you are curious, non-judgmental, then you are able to receive. I wanted these people to be reassured that they can do unusual things if they do it right. So for them, I wrote ‘Go Kiss the World’, trying to look at the life of a professional in the 20s, 30s and 40s.
The 20s are the time when you want to be someone, in your 30s you are that someone and 40s see the journey from who you are to who you are meant to be. So in different phases of your professional life, different professional and personal challenges unfold and this journey has to be handled with a long view of time. Life is precious and everything is connected, though we don’t often realize how small things lead to big things. When you look at the complex web that life is, you need to treat your life with gentleness and with care, you need to understand that you are a means to an end. So, keeping that in mind, ‘Go Kiss the World’ was written; very personal as the title itself is something my mother told me on her deathbed.
On The Professional
With ‘The Professional’, it occurred to me that there is a larger need for a toolkit that young professionals must carry. This is something that was brimming in my mind, even before my first book was written. As I started to see the world through my own eyes, I realized there is a vast difference between professionals in this country and their counterparts anywhere in the developed countries. Not to say the counterparts there are better than them, what I’m saying is if you’re a first rate professional, you’re first rate anywhere in the world. But the average in our country is way below their average. And it’s not because of your mettle, but because no one told you how to be better than who you are.
So, I essentially drew lessons by looking around different sectors and put together a toolkit on how to be world-class as a professional. How to actually understand the difference between professional qualification and what it means to be a true professional.
Differences in style:
I think the books are more symbiotic than vastly different. One is about enterprise building, the other is about looking at your own life as an enterprise, and the third book ‘The Professional’ is something that entrepreneurs and young professionals would like to read. At the same time, I think there is bound to be a subtle difference, because I think I have matured as a writer as the books have been published over 5 years. Maybe I’ve matured, maybe I’ve not, but those subtle differences, I think, is for the critics to tap.
There are a plethora of management books regularly published from industry leaders all over the world - how are your books different from the rest and why should we read them?
I think it’s very difficult for me to tell you what the x-factor is in my books. It’s, first of all, a great thing that a lot of practitioners are writing books in India. It started with Kishore Biyani and myself, then Nandan, of course. His book isn’t about business. It is much larger as you’re talking about imagining India which is a much larger canvas. How are my books different? I tried to build a book which has a toolkit of sorts, which is more than just raising an issue or a problem… The learner, practitioner, young manager is probably the wrong word, the young working person, that is the individual I write for. I wouldn’t say my books are profound. I think I’m trying to write books which are very usable, a book that you will read and say, “Oh, this looks like a situation I’ve personally gone through and maybe next time I’ll do it a little differently.”
Similarly, I want young people to say, “Wow! So, I’m not alone. I’m not the only person who currently feels this contradiction, feels disconcerted, feels trapped, feels exuberant, sometimes in a situation that will change the course of my life. What Subroto says here looks familiar.” I want to evoke this feeling.
Primarily, who have been your target audience for your three books?
I essentially write for people who are in the age range of 20-40 and for those who come from the B-towns, the people who come from hinterland India.
In your first book The High Performance Entrepreneur you have laid out the groundwork to build a thriving and successful business - in your opinion what would be the three golden rules to achieve this?
The three imperative things to build a sustainable business - you must have a long view of time. Organization building takes a long time. We’ve been building MindTree for the past 11 years and we’re not half done, not that there is anytime when you can say ‘I’m done.’ But honestly, it takes far longer than many of us would think.
The second very important thing is, to understand And this is where most people have struggled, that an idea is not an enterprise. If you’ve figured out how to build a particular gizmo, it means you’re an inventor, not necessarily an enterprise builder. The two are vastly different. When I meet young people, , they’re obsessed with the idea of creating a portal or building a gizmo, but if you look at companies like Intel, Apple, Infosys, MindTree or Wipro, they’re not built like that. The entrepreneur is obsessed with the idea of business - the business of business, as I call it, and not just one idea. If you’ve got a great idea, go sell it to someone and move on to your next idea. You should be able to see a family of ideas; you should know that you’re committed to creating something sustainable even if one idea fails.
The third important thing is to have a good set of people to work with. The initial core set of people. Many times a venture capitalist will tell you that he or she rather back an A-team with a B idea, rather than B-team with an A idea. If you’ve got an A-team with a B idea, they will figure it out and fix it. As I told you, it’s not the idea that makes the enterprise, it’s the people who make the enterprise.
That said, I must tell you, these kinds of questions tend to oversimplify the issue; it isn’t really right to say these are the only answers, everything is situational.
Recession has opened up the opportunity to set up new businesses for young entrepreneurs - was this something that prompted you to write your first book?
Writing a book is like delivering a baby, though these days it’s fashionable to time your baby to a particular event, but generally your baby comes when your baby comes, so it wasn’t planned that way. Typically, I take a year to write a book, and it just so happens that Penguin came to me at a certain time and at MindTree, we were at that point where we could say there is enough information, enough data, enough conclusion, enough learning to be able to now package it and hold it for the young would-be entrepreneurs out there. It so happened ‘The High Performance Entrepreneur’ got released and the world went into a recession, it was nice because it’s during times of recession that great enterprises get built.
Again, to build a good company, you have to have a long view of time, so periodic ups and periodic downs should not bother someone. Ashok Soota, chairman and co-Founder of MindTree always says, “The interesting thing is that neither good times, nor bad times last forever and in good times instead of getting carried away one needs to prepare for the bad times. And in bad times one needs to build preparedness for the good times to come back.”
Go Kiss The World is a beautiful name for a title, there is a touching story behind it… can you tell us how you came about naming your second book?
Funnily, it wasn’t I who decided to use the title - when ‘The High Performance Entrepreneur’ was sent to Press; my editor took me by complete surprise and asked “What’s the next book?” I was thinking to myself “Will my first book sell?” At that time my editor, Krishan Chopra, said, “First of all, you have to write the next book for Penguin and it’s time you started now. But irrespective of what is written in the book, the title has to be ‘Go Kiss The World’.”
The story behind that story is that I was invited by IIM in 2004 to deliver the commencement talk, and I was telling myself all these kids are in the self-congratulatory mode and one more boring corporate guy comes and talks about globalisation, the importance of taking your work seriously and making your impact - will these kids even listen to me? So then I thought, why don’t I turn the whole thing on its head and talk to them in the first person and talk to them about my life lessons and life lessons not learned in a MBA school, but life lessons from people who have given me life. So I talked about the lessons I learned from my father and mother and the title of that speech was ‘Go Kiss the World’. Even today, I think, it is one of the most spammed content on the Internet, if you Google it, you’ll find multiple versions of that speech listed - for six years it’s amazing how it’s been kept alive. It developed a life of its own, in India and outside of it, people asked for reprint rights, used for the school curriculum; it went into hundreds of in-house magazines and was published in full in many major newspapers. So Krishan said, “Write what you want to write, but the title has to be Go Kiss the World.”
In Go Kiss The World - there are several depictions of your experiences with nasty bosses, tell us about one of these experiences and could you tell us how one is able to deal with such a situation?
A lot of young people get overwhelmed very early in their career when they’re put in a tough professional situation, where the situation is perpetrated by someone who is larger than you at that moment and you think this is make or break. One such incident happened in my life where I wanted to quit. A very senior person called me and told me this very fascinating thing, he said, “You know when a little seed sprouts from under a big rock, between the sapling and the rock, the power rests with the rock; at that moment if the sapling tries to push the rock back, it’s not going to happen. The sapling typically grows by circumventing the rock and 15 years after when the sapling has become a full grown tree, where is the rock? The rock is at the feet of the tree.” It’s very important to keep that perspective, but doesn’t mean you should put up with abusive behavior, it doesn’t mean you should live even a moment of issues bordering on harassment and I deal with some of that in The Professional. But on issues which are non-threatening in a personal sense, when you get overwhelmed, think of, are you looking at the rock as the end of the road or should you be focused on growing up.
You did a 10 year stint at Wipro through the late 80s well into the 90s, tell us about your relationship with your then boss - Azim Premji?
He’s a great man; he’s built a business which he inherited from his father. Wipro was started in 1947, so we’re talking about a company which is 60+ years old. Wipro is a company that is globally recognized today. Yes, I worked directly under him; a very charismatic and principled leader, one of a kind. We had our moments of agreements and moments of severe disagreements. But when I look back, I’m proud to say he is one of the handful of people from whom I’ve directly learnt how to deal with contradictions and how to come to a decision when you are dealing with difficult human and corporate situations. How do you choose between the right and the expedient? It was great working with Wipro, because I look at myself as an organization builder and in those 10 years Wipro was growing up from being a domestically focused company to an international brand. I was lucky to have very interesting assignments there.
In your introduction for The Professional you clearly tell the reader exactly how the book is meant to be read - urging the reader to not skip and jump, but rather to read it in the order it is presented; is there a particular reason you felt the need to tell this to your readers?
What happens is that many of us read books, typically management books, a little bit from here and some portions from there; sometimes starting from the back to see the conclusion. ‘The Professional’ is set in a particular way, first it says: Who is a professional? What are the three most critical elements of being a professional? Once that is established, we move into another higher body of knowledge, which is about self-awareness. A professional must be self aware. Then I move on to say what kind of key issues you will face through your 20s, 30s and 40s. How do you move from being an individual professional contributor to a person who can lead and manage, because the complexities become vastly different. The success factors of a professional in her 20s and 30s are different from those she may need in her 40s. Then the book deals with the imperatives for a new world.
For the last 50-60 years we have created professionals in many different disciplines in India, but the biggest difference between that time and the next 20 years is that Indian professionals would have to play a global game - the world has vastly changed, Internet and free trade has changed the world. So there are certain new world imperatives which must be understood, appreciated and practiced - so the book goes into that body of knowledge. Finally, the books talk about some of the most unprofessional things that people do, not to create a huge laundry list, but to make people step back for a moment and say, these are stuff that I need to stay away from. Now unless you read the book in that sequence, it is not likely to give you the complete perspective.
In The Professional - you highlight the difference between the true professional versus one who is professionally qualified, what exactly is the difference?
The fundamental difference is that professional qualification and professional experience can make you very competent. Let’s say you are a first rate nephrologist and you do a surgical procedure brilliantly, but you know what? You’re in the kidney racket. So, are you professionally qualified? Of course, you are. Are you being a professional? No, you’re not. The book deals with a situation where Supreme Court lawyers in the ‘BMW Case’, a famous hit and run case in Delhi, were involved. Where the prosecution lawyer and defense lawyers colluded. The matter went all the way to the Supreme Court of India and these lawyers, who were representing opposite sides and colluding, were crossing the basic ethical boundary which is taught as Legal 101. If I’m a prosecution lawyer, I can’t be colluding with a defense lawyer. If I’m a defense lawyer, I can’t be doing something which is against the interest of my client. These are people who have represented Prime Ministers of the country. Were they professionally qualified? Absolutely stellar professional qualifications! But were they being professional?
One of the unusual professionals epitomized in your book, is Mr. Mahadeva (a man who has earned respect and recognition for burying unclaimed corpses through his lifetime). How did you go about choosing and researching the true professionals in your book?
Interestingly, unlike many of the management books that come out, which are aided by research teams, I’m my one man research team. What I do continuously, every morning is to look around; observe and absorb.I’m very curious about what’s going on in the world. How did I get to know about Mahadeva? I read about Mahadeva probably 15 years back, reading a small piece somewhere, I filed it in the back of my mind, and I said some day I must find this individual. At that time I was not even contemplating a book, at that time I was thinking here is a source of profound learning from an unusual source. I believe that the greatest learning in life you’ll get by looking at unusual sources. The usual sources have either been exhausted or everybody will go to the usual sources.
So you go to a Mahadeva or the Cucumber Seller of Chennai. One of my best read columns in Business World was on this man, who sells cucumbers by the roadside - a half naked man who gave me a couple of lessons in professionalism and humility. I’m continuously looking at people from all directions, unusual sources. Once you up your antenna, you’ll find that the sources present themselves and then all I’m doing is I’m filing them up because I’m saying I’m not just a consumer of this information, but I’m a repository. I’m being given this knowledge to go and tell this story. Of course, you can’t be like a camera where I’m insensitive about what I’m filming. That’s where the human being is different from the machine. My intellect, my knowledge, is no good unless I have empathy, inclusion, where I’m saying, “What is it like to be in this person’s shoes?”
With three acclaimed management books to your name, what have you got lined up for your fourth book? Does the thought of writing fiction ever cross your mind?
Absolutely not! I think it’s very important for a person to know his limitations. Just because my books sell, tomorrow I’ll say why don’t I compete with Arundhati Roy, Jhumpa Lahiri or Amitav Ghosh - it’s not going to happen. I think these are higher life-forms. My wife, Susmita Bagchi, is a fiction writer; her first English novel has been released. It’s a book called Children of a Better God. She has written 13 books in her mother tongue - Oriya. We have very clear marked lines in the house, for less intelligent, mundane stuff and non-fiction, I’m the departmental head. Fiction she writes and we don’t cross each other’s boundaries.
Currently, what are you reading?
At this time I’m reading Raghav Bahl’s book; Superpower? : The Amazing Race Between China’s Hare And India’s Tortoise. It’s an interesting read that talks about the race between India and China. It talks about the possibilities and the inherent challenges of both these countries. Raghav Bahl is an entrepreneur I admire – he’s the man who founded TV 18 and has channels like CNN IBN and CNBC in India and also publishes for Forbes India. He’s got very interesting perspectives in this book.
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